Curse

Winterclaw · Dec 18, 2009, 04:53 AM // 04:53

Regina said that the devs are looking into changing tactics for warrior primaries here so if you have any thoughts or comments on how tactics changes should be handled, please share them in this thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina

Tactics – Tactics is the least exciting Warrior attribute and primarily sees use as a secondary attribute on other classes. We’re considering several options to address the weaknesses of Tactics.

FoxBat · Dec 18, 2009, 05:09 AM // 05:09

Aggro-management, obviously.

More seriously, you can get away boosting attack-punishing skills because mobs love to do that. Say deadly riposte triggering on the next X enemy attacks adjacent to you (doesn't even have to target you, just that you are adjacent.)

Giga_Gaia · Dec 18, 2009, 05:13 AM // 05:13

I'd like to see "Watch Yourself!" being useful again. Maybe scale the armor bonus/duration like they did flail: very low bonuses at low tactics and then increasing at a higher rate as the ranks go up? This way only primary warriors would be able to afford points into tactics.

Also Heal Sig could use a better look at too if you want wars to use that attribute again. Not sure on the best way to do it but IMO the armor penalty or the casting time could be decreased.

EDIT: The tactics elite skills like Soldier's Stance also needs to be made more elite worthy.

Soldier's Stance: completely outclassed by Soldier's Fury. Needs to be less conditional and/or longer lasting for an elite. Or perhaps give it a secondary benefit.

Eragon Zarroc · Dec 18, 2009, 05:51 AM // 05:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Aggro-management

this would be uber interesting ;-) what if some skills were changed to where they force enemies to target the user

pull aggro from monks and hold balls better for aoe spikage ;-) prolly would be overpowered

Del · Dec 18, 2009, 06:04 AM // 06:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eragon Zarroc

hold balls

i lol'd.

anywho, i think the main problem with tactics is the lack of a useful inherent buff like strength's armor penetration, and the attribute is far more focused on defense, which really isn't necessary when most warriors have 100-120-ish armor. and strength and weapon mastery provide enough for offense, so IMO they would need to add some strong party support similar to a paragon's shouts, but seeing as how there's paragons, i don't exactly see a point to buffing tactics beyond buffing it just so warriors will use it.

Bob Slydell · Dec 18, 2009, 06:29 AM // 06:29

I don't see much of a weakness with Tactics, but then again I really don't use it often and when I do its for the Riposte's.

I don't think they should do anything with it IMO, there are other classes who have boring attribute lines as well that aren't their main attribute (like Tactics is to Warrior).

zwei2stein · Dec 18, 2009, 07:51 AM // 07:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Aggro-management, obviously.

'Taunts' would be kind of kick-in-the-balls for game mechanics.

End · Dec 18, 2009, 08:09 AM // 08:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apathetic Tom

i lol'd.

Eragon knows all about holding balls...

more seriously though...I think aggro control would be amazing to see...but i think you'd be throwing alot of the current game mechanics out the window...and we can't even get them to change 1 elite skill...

I don't have high hopes for whatever they do...but I think we can expect changes that make "Watch Yourself" and Healsig more appealing...

draxynnic · Dec 18, 2009, 08:57 AM // 08:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giga_Gaia

I'd like to see "Watch Yourself!" being useful again. Maybe scale the armor bonus/duration like they did flail: very low bonuses at low tactics and then increasing at a higher rate as the ranks go up? This way only primary warriors would be able to afford points into tactics.

Another obvious change is to remove the cooldown. The cooldown was introduced in the first place to prevent it from being abused by Paragons, but then the cooldown on GftE (introduced at the same time) was removed, so it's a bit strange that the Warrior's one remains un-un-nerfed. (Personally, with a limit on armour stacking, I'm not sure it really matters if non-Warriors use it in PvE. It's redundant with "Save Yourselves!" around anyway.)

Reverting the stances to long-duration, long(er)-recharge may also be worth experimenting with - I can see the benefits to the shorter lengths and recharges in PvP, but in PvE it was largely viewed simply as a nerf. Another thing that might be worth trying is to make all the skills that have "ends if you use a skill" in Tactics be a little less restrictive - at the moment, they basically shut you down for anything apart from autoattacking if you want to keep them going. Giving them a bigger range of things you can do while they're active - even if this involves actually giving them a tap with the nerf stick in their actual effects - may make them more versatile.

Xsiriss · Dec 18, 2009, 09:15 AM // 09:15

Needs defensive buffs...owait that's what paragons are for. It's going to be incredibly hard for anet to find a good use for tactics.

upier · Dec 18, 2009, 09:57 AM // 09:57

Your weapon mastery enables you to do damage.
SY! takes care of the rest.
The only reason why you'd want to invest into tactics is farming. Which makes me believe that a tactics warrior will be the new SF assassin. Unless the buffs will just be so minor that they will only stink less rather than smell nice.

distilledwill · Dec 18, 2009, 10:31 AM // 10:31

I can't help but feel we should just expect some dartboard buffs, dartboard nerfs and then nothing for another year.

Amirite?

qvtkc · Dec 18, 2009, 01:09 PM // 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Aggro-management, obviously.

I hope not.

Seeing the Soldier's skills improve would be fun. Various stances could also be improved on, but making sure they can't be exploited by secondaries.

Gift3d · Dec 18, 2009, 01:34 PM // 13:34

i think it should all be pve only changes cause buffs to tactics will only spawn more iway groups that are just pure annoying and will never be nerfed, we all know izzy loves iway.

could make none shall pass 5e and 20 recharge so it's at least usable. i think it might be a good skill if the state it's in right now wasn't similar to pvp smiter's boon.

retreat, instead of dead allies, if there are any enemies within earshot.

watch yourself make it like 6-8 adren and make it a party-wide toned down reversal of fortune. except the next time allies within earshot take damage it's reduced by xx.
the +armor is useless cause of SY.

and we really don't need 8 blocking stances in tactics.

Tenebrae · Dec 18, 2009, 02:02 PM // 14:02

Kinda dangerous approach if they dont make a lot of PvE/P splits imo. Durations , effects and weaknesses have to be buffed as hell to be worthy. I cant stand those BS "if you use an ( sometimes adrenal ) skill this stance ends" or stuff like that. Kinda opposite to "tactics" word .... its like "hey , my tactic is stand here with a stance and dont move/use a skill/use another stance and see what happens" pffffff .

Hugh Manatee · Dec 18, 2009, 02:04 PM // 14:04

I've always wondered what it would be like if strength lengthened warrior stances like spawning increases weapon duration, or maybe set up the tactics stuff so it scales with strength, like lions comfort used to scale with tactics or glowing gaze scales with e-storage now. Even then that kinda defeats the point of noone likes self defense stuff on a warrior...

They need to have some sort of offensive purpose, even if it's just to facilitate offense, as in it keeps you alive long enough to go deep and kick ass... Maybe kind of a flashing blades/glad's defense light, like adjacent foes take x damage per strength when you block something with any of those skills. Or you block stuff AND attack faster if you're strength stat is at some break-point(take disciplined stance for example, lasts 4 seconds, recharge 15, make it so you block 75% and attack 33% faster if your strength is >4). Also, let warriors attack in them, change the end clause from ends on any skill to ends on non-attack skill or something. The key here is you need to tie this stuff to STRENGTH somehow so warrior secondaries don't abuse this stuff and you need to make it more whupass friendly.

Also, crazy idea, not likely to happen, but what if there was a reason you wanted tactics at a certain level? Like with the sentinel's insignia you get +20 armor if you have +13 strength, what if you change one of the sets of insignias to do something similar. Like with the lieutenant's insignias, Make em reduce the hex duration, but if you have like >8 tactics you don't get the armor and damage penalties?

EDIT: about the soldier's stuff, it's not the skills themselvesthat suck, if you can get IWAY to last long enough, like in fort aspenwood it lasts like 2+ minutes with all the dead bodies in range, the soldier's skills are like crazy strong, you can be running around unblockable with IMS and IAS whupping on stuff. It's that there's no more shouts that last long enough and are reliable enough to be useful with those skills, used to be watch yourself or for great justice, but it got nerfed to hell... They should do something with to "To the Limit!" maybe, make it cheap, make it last awhile, make it the thing warriors take to use the soldier's skills. Maybe make it give just a little more adrenaline per hit instead of a lump sum, kind of FGJ lite, like the adrenaline gain balthazar's spirit gives you(1/25 a strike for each point in tactics per hit you take only tie it to attacks as well as hits you take). Take it's recharge down so you can use it continuously.

Bodock · Dec 18, 2009, 05:18 PM // 17:18

I think the tactics line needs to be tweaked more into group buffs.

Like a grp IAS at the cost of some penalty(ex mov penalty) to the caster lessened with points in STR.

Or like someone else said a Rof type spell that is grp wide, but make it redirect some portion of the dmg to the caster which could be lessened with points put into STR.

Things along these lines which can be used by other classes but are more beneficial to the war class.

w00t! · Dec 18, 2009, 06:03 PM // 18:03

For me it'd be as simple as reverting Glads and a few other stances back to the longer durations. Back in the day a Tank could really tank fairly well using Glads and Bonettis, along with a few other skills. Now tanking seems to be primarily confined to Defy Pain Strength builds and of course, the gimmicky Obby Tank; damage mitigation rather than damage avoidance, which is the hallmark of a Tactics build.

FoxBat · Dec 18, 2009, 06:07 PM // 18:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

'Taunts' would be kind of kick-in-the-balls for game mechanics.

Yeah but you know people want it, and Anet seems to be in the mood for providing stupidly overpowered stuff lately... it does happen to be the perfect attribute for such skills, I can see it happening... then we will know GW2 is doomed to WoWity.

Bobby2 · Dec 18, 2009, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Nerf SF, buff Tactics. I smell trouble :'D